Curse

Cebe · Aug 08, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

-How do you spread your att points considering AoF resides in protection? Like a hybrid and only dedicate 9 prot to it? Or do you let divine sag even more and bump up prot to get more bang out of AoF?

I tried with 11 + 1 + 1 Healing Prayers, 12 + 1 Protection Prayers and 6 + 1 Divine Favour.

AoF gives 90% more healing so Patient Spirit heals for 208 I think, and damage is reduced by about 44% on top of that.

Magikarp · Aug 08, 2008, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

The possibilities are interesting; here are some cons that I see though:

-Trading a reliable big heal (WoH or ZB) for AoF+ Patient Spirit or DW to get similar result.

-Spikes often invlove pre-enchant removal.

-How do you spread your att points considering AoF resides in protection? Like a hybrid and only dedicate 9 prot to it? Or do you let divine sag even more and bump up prot to get more bang out of AoF?

(Still, I think it will be a fun skill to play with.)

you dont have to let your bar sag, just take the break point for a 3 second AoF and take an ench weapon swap for a 4 second Aura. Personally (and while i always say hybrids are better), i've been playing this:

Aura of Faith
RoF
Guardian
SoA
Prot Spirit
Holy Veil
Shield Bash
Dismiss

with really good results.

also, one thing to consider about what you were saying about catching and preemptive spike tactics..

Aura isnt a long lasting skill (obviously), so like WoD, its to be played very aggressively, allowing you to pick up where other skills lose out (like Prot spirit or spirit bond), after they get shredded.

i can see it being played like this:

targets are being called. frontline come at you, and your veil is shattered, your PS is removed... activate AoF. its too fast, and last short enough to more or less be impossible to remove, or at least someone want to waste a skill to remove it. now look, you take nearly 50% less damage from all sources, and its already healed you with double divine favor, and you can follow up with any great small prot (or big prot) to continue monking. thats just my take on it so far, and while of course it has many counters, its the same amount, if not less of counters any other elite sees.

High Moral · Aug 08, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

I find dismiss working ery well with Aura of Faith. Patient spirit, Aura of faith, dismiss condition. Gives a nice healing boost, small prot and condition removal.

but still, I find Aura of Faith, So and SO in when it comes to PvP compared to the old WoH hybrid build.

ender6 · Aug 08, 2008, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

I tried with 11 + 1 + 1 Healing Prayers, 12 + 1 Protection Prayers and 6 + 1 Divine Favour.

AoF gives 90% more healing so Patient Spirit heals for 208 I think, and damage is reduced by about 44% on top of that.

That's more or less the att spread I was thinking. I'm going to toy with it when I get home from work.

@magikcarp: I'm certainly not denoucing the skill at all.

I was wondering what a pure prot build would look like, glad to see you provided one. I'm still a little concerned with the lack of direct healing in a pure prot bar; I can see problems against degen pressure with that bar.

I'm also wondering if it will become an energy crunch if everytime you have to get a good heal you have to preface it with AoF.

Age · Aug 08, 2008, 08:21 PM // 20:21

I am not really impressed as I only get 3 sec. out of it at 13 protect using Droknar's Protection Rod.I would of rather have seen Life Sheath get a buff instead.I was hoping it would.

I am not impressed with the Monks changes in this balance.

Magikarp · Aug 08, 2008, 08:49 PM // 20:49

i should also mention that in all honesty, the skill doesnt fare well alone, and its best when paired with a secondary healer, such as a support rit, support n/rt, and especially (and obviously) another monk.

So far, im finding AWESOME synergy in an AoF monk with prot spec and Shield Bash or DStance etc, and either a hybrid WoH or a new hybrid Burst.

think of it this way.. the blanket heal of Burst is exactly that.. fluff.. add in Aura.. and do you see where im going? now it goes from a gentle 20hp, to a more worthy 38+hp +the fat heal+DF. its nothing to write home about, but just think about it.

personally, i've used and tested all of the new skills, and so far, AoF, Unyield, MoM, Xin's, VoR, Tease, and Endurance are my favs...

not to mention the pve only buffs.. and SNIPAR SAPOORT :P (nearly killed a charr boss in one hit with Asura Scan!)

idk.. more ideas with AoF should generate in the next few days though.

p.s.

did you guys laugh as hard as i did at the 230+ hp heal from Aura+Sig of Devo? :P

Age · Aug 08, 2008, 10:08 PM // 22:08

I would rather use ZB instead of AoF for any type of healig in protection as Aof is a enchant it should be able to preprotect with it.You can't preprotect with something that lasts 3 sec. Life Sheath would of been better.

Tyla · Aug 08, 2008, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Why can't you preprotect with it?

It casts at 1/4 and can stop alot of damage coming from spikes. It also ups Infuse's healpower at the same time.

The duration doesn't matter nearly as much as the cast in terms of preprotting.

Age · Aug 08, 2008, 10:21 PM // 22:21

You can only get 4 out of it at most and at 8 recharge that is not preprotecting as it is now in protection as an enchant most enchants in protection are used to preprotect.Who needs infuse when you got ZB.

Magikarp · Aug 08, 2008, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

You can only get 4 out of it at most and at 8 recharge that is not preprotecting as it is now in protection as an enchant most enchants in protection are used to preprotect.Who needs infuse when you got ZB.

first off, ZB is crud compared to WoH, and second... you can't protect with it? AoF may be the single most powerful protection spell right now in terms of playable damage negation, so if you're not protecting with it, you're probably using it wrong. also.. last time i checked, infuse only gets strong from AoF lol..

Age · Aug 08, 2008, 10:47 PM // 22:47

SoD is still better for preprotecting than AoF is and if I was mostly protect I would prefer ZB.I don't consider AoF as preprotect Life Sheath would of been better.

Tyla · Aug 08, 2008, 10:56 PM // 22:56

That's because it blocks and adds armour.

The difference is that AoF is cheaper, buffs heals and negates damage.

Rigor would really screw SoD up, aswell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

You can only get 4 out of it at most and at 8 recharge that is not preprotecting as it is now in protection as an enchant most enchants in protection are used to preprotect.

I didn't understand what the hell you said there, but I assume you think spikes last 4 seconds.

Quote:

Who needs infuse when you got ZB.

I'm not talking TA, in which case you'd find spikes alot weaker than in 8v8 because there is less people and bars are tight.

In 8v8, running ZB is retarded for the simple reason the energy bonus is more of a chance than anything else, in the 3/4 seconds of you casting that the target ally might be dead (Which is why Infuse is called a "Spike Heal"), WoH > ZB for filling bars in the first place.

Magikarp · Aug 08, 2008, 11:03 PM // 23:03

not to mention, you're talking about taking a block mechanic over a massive universal damage negation mechanic.. its totally different in terms of what they do.. and tbh.. negation is MUCH better.

Burst Cancel · Aug 09, 2008, 12:04 AM // 00:04

I still think it's only usable in spike situations; it has pretty much no other utility. Both PS and SB are better at overall damage negation in the long term, and while you're talking about things like Patient Spirit healing for 200+, remember that you've taken WoH off your bar to bring AoF; that missing WoH could have done that 200+ point heal in one skill instead of two.

Note that the timing window on this skill is pretty strict too - this isn't something you can play successfully on reaction, and adding shatters to the spike makes the timing even worse. I imagine the opposing team can simply watch the AoF and shatter on reaction, since the other monk will be healing.

And yeah, I doubt this will see play in PvE. At all.

Summary: extremely situational skill with massive benefits if played correctly.

Magikarp · Aug 09, 2008, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

I still think it's only usable in spike situations; it has pretty much no other utility. Both PS and SB are better at overall damage negation in the long term, and while you're talking about things like Patient Spirit healing for 200+, remember that you've taken WoH off your bar to bring AoF; that missing WoH could have done that 200+ point heal in one skill instead of two.

Note that the timing window on this skill is pretty strict too - this isn't something you can play successfully on reaction, and adding shatters to the spike makes the timing even worse.

And yeah, I doubt this will see play in PvE. At all.

Summary: extremely situational skill with massive benefits if played correctly.

WoH doesnt soak 50% damage for 4 seconds either :P

also, SB and PS only prosper from a skill like Aura, so why not take one of them too? Aura is the catch that allows follow up prots to have more room to breathe. also, who shatters a 4 second long enchantment? even if they had something like that, and you knew it was coming, simply AoF+RoF. its like infuse+Incoming+Prot spirit on steroids.

Burst Cancel · Aug 09, 2008, 12:22 AM // 00:22

You'd shatter AoF because it has the potential to ruin any spike pretty much all by itself. And PS doesn't benefit from AoF at all. Further, if AoF is the catch for other prots, I honestly don't see the point - you could just use those prots to begin with. I mean, at this point you're talking about saving spikes with 3~5 different skills; a sign we might be trying too hard to make AoF work.

I don't think it's terrible per se, but it seems like a strictly anti-spike skill. WoH doesn't soak 50% damage for 4 seconds, but outside of spike situations, 4 seconds of 50% damage reduction isn't that amazing compared to 15+ seconds of PS or 10 strikes of SB.

It's too bad I don't play anymore; otherwise I'd just give it a shot instead of playing Theorywars.

Magikarp · Aug 09, 2008, 12:28 AM // 00:28

3-5 anti spike skills??? you mean AoF+RoF isnt enough? have you tried it? lol.. its nuts.

also.. PS does benifit, because the DF is nearly doubled, making it heal for as much as 80 hp plus the prot..

Tyla · Aug 09, 2008, 12:53 AM // 00:53

I understand what you mean about that, Burst, but on your common RC / WoH backline, it'd probably be the RC that would be replaced. The only problem is that the only skills that effectively clear up certain things today are Mending Touch and RC, with the problem skill being Wounding Strike.

I understand why you would argue against it's effectiveness, but I also like it's slight use outside of a spike when someone's being mauled on. It's still quite an effective damage mitigation skill though.

Burst Cancel · Aug 09, 2008, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

3-5 anti spike skills??? you mean AoF+RoF isnt enough? have you tried it? lol.. its nuts.

also.. PS does benifit, because the DF is nearly doubled, making it heal for as much as 80 hp plus the prot..

Like I said, in GvG you'd be facing shatters. And you specifically said that AoF serves to give you breathing room for other prots - that's what I was responding to in terms of 3~5 skills. Basically, if you're still using 'other prots' after putting down AoF, I don't think AoF is worth your elite slot, frankly.

And DF bonus isn't a benefit for PS, that's just DF benefit in general; you could cast any other skill (and one that doesn't cost 10e) and get the same doubled DF heal. Stacking the PS effect on top of AoF is likely redundant in any PvP situation; one of my problems with AoF is that in PvP you'd be looking to replace one of your other big prots with it - but it's not quite good enough to do PS's job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I understand what you mean about that, Burst, but on your common RC / WoH backline, it'd probably be the RC that would be replaced. The only problem is that the only skills that effectively clear up certain things today are Mending Touch and RC, with the problem skill being Wounding Strike.

I understand why you would argue against it's effectiveness, but I also like it's slight use outside of a spike when someone's being mauled on. It's still quite an effective damage mitigation skill though.

I can see trading the RC for AoC and shifting cond. mgt. to the midline. As for use outside of spikes ... it's up for 4 with 8 recharge. I don't see the effectiveness in tossing it around outside of spikes - not to mention you risk not having it available when the spike comes down, and as I said, the timing on this skill is a bit tighter than others.

Edit: popped into GW for an hour or so to fiddle with this skill; this strengthened my opinion that AoF is totally useless outside of anti-spike applications. It simply doesn't last long enough to be useful in general usage.

Age · Aug 09, 2008, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

That's because it blocks and adds armour.

The difference is that AoF is cheaper, buffs heals and negates damage.

Rigor would really screw SoD up, aswell.

I didn't understand what the hell you said there, but I assume you think spikes last 4 seconds.

I'm not talking TA, in which case you'd find spikes alot weaker than in 8v8 because there is less people and bars are tight.

I was and there nothing wrong with running ZB in RA/TA I have seen some spikes and I would say bars are more tighter in 8vs8 as you have room to experiment. I am talking PvE here as well this being The Campfire and all.